{"id":11312,"date":"2023-04-26T17:22:51","date_gmt":"2023-04-26T21:22:51","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/?p=11312"},"modified":"2023-05-17T15:06:47","modified_gmt":"2023-05-17T19:06:47","slug":"an-alternate-approach-to-pistol-sights","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/an-alternate-approach-to-pistol-sights\/","title":{"rendered":"An Alternate Approach to Pistol Sights"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>A few months ago, I had a conversation with Tim Chandler about some new ideas he and Ashton Ray were trying out in their pistol classes. Some of it sounded like new and better ways to explain old concepts. And some of it sounded just plain new, at least to me. I was intrigued and that conversation eventually led to the video below where Ashton and Tim explain their approach to teaching pistol sights.<\/p> <p>Details are in the video, or scroll down to read the transcript.<\/p> <div class=\"entry-content-asset\"><script src=\"https:\/\/fast.wistia.com\/assets\/external\/E-v1.js\" async><\/script><\/p> <noscript class=\"idle-load\"><div class=\"wistia_responsive_padding\" style=\"padding:56.25% 0 0 0;position:relative;\"> <div class=\"wistia_responsive_wrapper\" style=\"height:100%;left:0;position:absolute;top:0;width:100%;\"> <div class=\"wistia_embed wistia_async_hkqlg84tvc dnt=1 seo=false videoFoam=true\" style=\"height:100%;position:relative;width:100%\"> <div class=\"wistia_swatch\" style=\"height:100%;left:0;opacity:0;overflow:hidden;position:absolute;top:0;transition:opacity 200ms;width:100%;\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/fast.wistia.com\/embed\/medias\/hkqlg84tvc\/swatch\" style=\"filter:blur(5px);height:100%;object-fit:contain;width:100%;\" alt=\"\" aria-hidden=\"true\" onload=\"this.parentNode.style.opacity=1;\" \/><\/div> <\/div> <\/div> <\/div><\/noscript> <\/div> <hr \/> <p>Hey everybody, I am Chris Baker from <a href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/\">LuckyGunner.com<\/a>. Sometimes you think you understand a concept really well. You\u2019ve heard it explained a thousand times in a hundred different ways. You\u2019ve even successfully taught other people about that concept. But then somebody comes along and offers a slightly different perspective, and it\u2019s like you\u2019re looking at that topic for the very first time.<\/p> <p>My friends Ashton Ray and Tim Chandler from <a href=\"https:\/\/360performanceshooting.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">360 Performance Shooting<\/a> recently had an experience like this. They were training with another instructor and one little side comment he made about how he uses pistol sights just kind of blew their minds. That\u2019s led to some major changes in how they teach the principles of aiming and sight alignment.<\/p> <p>I think their approach should be thought-provoking for shooters at any skill level. They\u2019ve got a couple of twists on some familiar ideas that bring clarity where there is often ambiguity. I caught up with Ashton and Tim at the Rangemaster TacCon last month, so I\u2019m going to let them do most of the talking today. This is a super-distilled version of what they\u2019ve been teaching in their pistol classes.<\/p> <p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/ashton-tim.jpg\" data-rel=\"lightbox-image-0\" data-rl_title=\"\" data-rl_caption=\"\" title=\"\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11316\" src=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/ashton-tim.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1000\" height=\"541\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/ashton-tim.jpg 1000w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/ashton-tim-600x325.jpg 600w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/ashton-tim-768x415.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1000px) 100vw, 1000px\" \/><\/a><\/p> <h3>Revisiting Old Cliches<\/h3> <p>TIM CHANDLER: So we\u2019ve encountered a number of things over the years where people were saying the right things but we didn\u2019t fully understand what they meant.<\/p> <p>One of the big ones is, \u201csee what you need to see,\u201d in reference to iron sights. There are a lot of people who struggle with iron sights because they\u2019re told these euphemisms and these vague statements \u2013 \u201cSee what you need to see,\u201d \u201cequal height, [equal light].\u201d But it isn\u2019t super helpful. It doesn&#8217;t really help them have confidence in learning how to use them.<\/p> <p>The way it\u2019s taught is that the <em>sights<\/em> are the primary driver of accuracy on the pistol, but that\u2019s not actually true. Once you get some time on your belt, once you get some experience, you kind of learn it works differently, don\u2019t you?<\/p> <h3><strong>Sights are the Windshield<\/strong><\/h3> <p>ASHTON RAY: Right. The analogy that we like to use is, we talk about driving a car. When you\u2019re driving a car, the sights are your windshield, right? They tell you what exactly it is that\u2019s going on. You look through them? You have the world around you and how you\u2019re trying to interact with it and you look through that windshield and evaluate how well you\u2019re doing with the operation of that vehicle.<\/p> <p>If the sights are your windshield, your steering wheel is how you\u2019re mounting the gun with your hands. Now, if you\u2019re driving the car and the car is not going where you want it to go, very few people are going to tell you to \u201clook through the windshield harder.\u201d Because if your sights are telling you that you\u2019re not keeping your car between the lines, you need to fix some things <em>underneath<\/em> that windshield. You need to fix some things about how you\u2019re interacting physically with that gun.<\/p> <p>So if you can go with me with this analogy: the sights are your windshield. You have the steering wheel, that&#8217;s how you grip the gun, how you mount the gun. And then the trigger is going to be your accelerator and your brakes.<\/p> <p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/sights-car-analogy.jpg\" data-rel=\"lightbox-image-1\" data-rl_title=\"\" data-rl_caption=\"\" title=\"\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11317\" src=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/sights-car-analogy.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/sights-car-analogy.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/sights-car-analogy-600x338.jpg 600w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/sights-car-analogy-1024x576.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/sights-car-analogy-768x432.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1200px) 100vw, 1200px\" \/><\/a><\/p> <h3>Unpacking &#8220;See What You Need to See&#8221;<\/h3> <p>TIM: \u201cSee what you need to see.\u201d right? Anybody who has done any level of firearms training, you&#8217;ve heard somebody talk about \u201csee what you need to see\u201d with iron sights.<\/p> <p>But, you know, I spent God knows how many years \u2013 every time I heard that, I wanted to throw something hard at the ground because I don&#8217;t know what that means. Because all of our vision is different. And the fact that there\u2019s somebody out there who has lots and lots of experience and they\u2019ve sort of developed this \u201csnatch the pebble from my hand\u201d understanding of \u201csee what you need to see\u201d isn\u2019t terribly helpful for your typical person.<\/p> <p>So where we come in is taking somebody who\u2019s basically safe and try to help them become proficient. Mastery is an endless quest but we can help you find proficiency. One of the greatest revelations we\u2019ve had is changing how we use sights.<\/p> <p>I have a little visual aid &#8212; this is a representation of iron sights. And what you\u2019ve been told all your life, if you\u2019ve done formal firearms training, police academy or something, you need to have \u201cequal height, equal light.\u201d Front sight centered. Or you\u2019ve been told you <em>don\u2019t<\/em> need that, you need to \u201csee what you need to see.\u201d Well, let\u2019s talk about what that means.<\/p> <p>Over here, we have a target with a number of different size hit zones. I have this radical theory \u2013 and we\u2019ve kind of worked on this after doing a bit of training with <a href=\"https:\/\/www.timherronshooting.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Tim Herron<\/a>. He uses sights completely differently because he didn\u2019t come up through the institutions, he taught himself. And he thought, &#8220;why not use the <em>rear sight<\/em> as your primary cue?&#8221; And that, of course, is immediately going to make a lot of you all very, very uncomfortable because you\u2019ve been told, \u201cFocus on the front sight! Focus on the front sight!\u201d<\/p> <p>Think about this: I want to see what I want to hit through the rear sight, right? This part here, this void, that\u2019s called the notch. It can also be called a window. What do we do with windows? We look <em>through<\/em> them! I want to see what I want to hit through my rear sight window. Now this is important \u2013 if what I want to hit is <em>bigger<\/em> than my rear sight window, and my front sight is in that window (albeit imperfectly), I\u2019m still going to hit what I need to hit. That\u2019s all I \u201cneed to see.\u201d Because if it ends up anywhere in here, that\u2019s going to end up being a hit inside this target.<\/p> <p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/tim-chandler-sight-demo.jpg\" data-rel=\"lightbox-image-2\" data-rl_title=\"\" data-rl_caption=\"\" title=\"\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11322\" src=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/tim-chandler-sight-demo.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/tim-chandler-sight-demo.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/tim-chandler-sight-demo-600x338.jpg 600w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/tim-chandler-sight-demo-1024x576.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/tim-chandler-sight-demo-768x432.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1200px) 100vw, 1200px\" \/><\/a><\/p> <p>ASHTON: Well what about distance? What if the distance is such that that\u2019s not going to work out? Well, it\u2019s really interesting, because what we\u2019re working on is a <em>relative<\/em> relationship between size and distance. So if the target area is larger than the aperture of the rear sight, that window in the rear sight, this works. If it&#8217;s the next smaller size, that\u2019s just about the same size. Guess what? That still works.<\/p> <p>If you go to the smallest size, now we need to start using a little bit more refinement and a little more traditional view of those sight picture techniques that we\u2019ve all been taught and talked about. That\u2019s where it becomes a little more important. But whenever it comes to these larger, more forgiving relative target sizes, if it\u2019s bigger than the rear window and the sight is visible, send it.<\/p><p><\/p> <p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/small-target-sights.jpg\" data-rel=\"lightbox-image-3\" data-rl_title=\"\" data-rl_caption=\"\" title=\"\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11323\" src=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/small-target-sights.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1200\" height=\"764\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/small-target-sights.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/small-target-sights-600x382.jpg 600w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/small-target-sights-1024x652.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/small-target-sights-768x489.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1200px) 100vw, 1200px\" \/><\/a><\/p> <h3><strong>Sight Picture vs. Sight Movie<\/strong><\/h3> <p>ASHTON: Now there\u2019s another aspect of the \u201csee what you need to see\u201d part. Your sighting system is never going to be static. It\u2019s always going to be moving, it\u2019s alive. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.gabewhitetraining.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Gabe White<\/a> calls it a sight <em>movie<\/em>, and I agree with him wholeheartedly. If your sighting system &#8212; whether it&#8217;s a dot or irons makes no dang difference &#8212; is moving around within the target area, and is not exiting the target area, press the trigger. Send it.<\/p> <p>If it&#8217;s moving around without the target area, that means you need to fix it. That means you\u2019re doing something that you need to correct in the steerage section. That means the way you\u2019re mounted, the way you\u2019re standing, all the stuff that goes into the grip and mount of the gun needs to be refined such that it stops. You arrest that movement, you keep it inside your prescribed aiming area, then you can send it.<\/p> <h3><strong>How is This Relevant?<\/strong><\/h3> <p>TIM: Here&#8217;s where the benefit is for your typical defensive shooter. If your typical defensive shooter just takes the rear sight and you drive the top of the rear sight to about armpit level, what&#8217;s inside your rear sight window now? We call that&#8230;<\/p> <p>ASHTON: The soup kitchen.<\/p> <p>TIM: Because that\u2019s where all the good stuff is, right? And if our front sight is somewhere inside that window, what are we going to be hitting? We\u2019re going to be hitting the areas of a threat that are most important to stopping them from doing whatever awful thing it is that\u2019s causing us to have to shoot in the first place. We don\u2019t need to spend a bunch of time staring at the sights, hoping that the answer to life&#8217;s problems appear.<\/p> <p>What we\u2019re really trying to do is just get <em>enough<\/em> on our sights. That\u2019s where, \u201cSee what you need to see.\u201d comes in. That\u2019s really what it means. All I need is a reference that\u2019s good enough to call whether or not I can send it, or I need to fix it.<\/p> <p>And the smaller the target is, or appears in this relative reference of the sight window, the more of a focus I need on my front sight. I don\u2019t need a hard front sight focus to do that at five yards.<\/p> <p>ASHTON: Not at all.<\/p> <p>TIM: Really, if you just grip the gun properly and get the gun in front of your face, and you get something like that, guess what? You\u2019re gonna hit what you need to hit.<\/p> <p>ASHTON: And, critically speaking, most of the shooting errors we see have little to do with sighting and much more to do with changing the grip before\/during the trigger press. That\u2019s what moves the sights off the target, that&#8217;s where your \u201clow-left\u201d comes from. That\u2019s where the mistakes are usually made. It\u2019s not made with the visual reference of looking through the windshield, it\u2019s made with the physical interaction &#8212; that man\/machine interface between the grip of the gun and the hands.<\/p> <p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/firing-line-1.jpg\" data-rel=\"lightbox-image-4\" data-rl_title=\"\" data-rl_caption=\"\" title=\"\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11324\" src=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/firing-line-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1200\" height=\"675\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/firing-line-1.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/firing-line-1-600x338.jpg 600w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/firing-line-1-1024x576.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/firing-line-1-768x432.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1200px) 100vw, 1200px\" \/><\/a><\/p> <p>TIM: But the sights, because we\u2019re visually oriented creatures, the sights are the only part of shooting that we can see. And so that\u2019s where our brain and our focus wants to be. We want to focus on the part we can see. But &#8212; and I&#8217;m gonna say something that will sound slightly controversial but stick with me &#8212; the sights are the <em>least important<\/em> part of firing an accurate shot. I didn\u2019t say they\u2019re unimportant, I said they\u2019re the <em>least<\/em> important. Just like your windshield is not what drives your car, these are a passive reflection of what you\u2019re doing with the real controls. The real controls being your steering wheel and your pedals.<\/p> <p>ASHTON: So when you\u2019re working with your gun, when you\u2019re dry firing or live firing, one of the most important things you can do is gather the information that your sighting system is giving you.<\/p> <p>We\u2019re talking about iron sights today but dots are absolutely the same. Dots, they scream at you. They\u2019re a big neon billboard and they are shouting at you. Your iron sights are talking too, but they whisper. And you really have to pay attention.<\/p> <p>But if you watch what those sights are doing while you are setting up and then executing through your trigger press and making that shot, they will tell you how successful you\u2019re being in dry fire. And that translates directly to live fire. The problem is, most people are only looking for holes in the target. They\u2019re not paying attention and taking this information back on how well they\u2019re doing with mounting the gun, maintaining their grip and breaking that shot effectively.<\/p> <hr \/> <p>A huge thanks to Ashton and Tim for sharing that with us. If you want to train with them in person you can find their upcoming classes at <a href=\"https:\/\/360performanceshooting.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">360 Performance Shooting<\/a>. And of course, the next time you need ammo be sure to get it from us with lightning fast shipping at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/\">LuckyGunner.com<\/a>.<\/p> <p>&nbsp;<\/p> <\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>A few months ago, I had a conversation with Tim Chandler about some new ideas he and Ashton Ray were &#8230; <a class=\"read-more\" href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/an-alternate-approach-to-pistol-sights\/\">Continued<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":11314,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[6],"tags":[405,189,108],"class_list":["post-11312","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-toolbox","tag-pistols","tag-sights","tag-technique"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v25.9 - 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