{"id":11452,"date":"2023-06-20T13:06:55","date_gmt":"2023-06-20T17:06:55","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/?p=11452"},"modified":"2023-07-04T11:39:47","modified_gmt":"2023-07-04T15:39:47","slug":"recoil-lets-talk-about-feelings","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/recoil-lets-talk-about-feelings\/","title":{"rendered":"Recoil: Let&#8217;s Talk About Feelings"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>All handguns recoil. It&#8217;s a perfect demonstration of Newton&#8217;s Third Law. But the way we experience that recoil &#8212; the perceived or felt recoil &#8212; often varies dramatically from one gun to the next. Even if we compare two guns of equal weight firing the same cartridge and theoretically transferring the same amount of energy to the shooter&#8217;s hand via recoil, it&#8217;s possible for the <em>felt<\/em> recoil to be vastly different. We analyzed some more high speed footage to help explain why.<\/p> <p>Details are in the video below, or scroll down to read the full transcript (although this time, it won&#8217;t make a whole lot of sense without watching the video).<\/p> <div class=\"entry-content-asset\"><script src=\"https:\/\/fast.wistia.com\/assets\/external\/E-v1.js\" async><\/script><\/p> <noscript class=\"idle-load\"><div class=\"wistia_responsive_padding\" style=\"padding:56.25% 0 28px 0;position:relative;\"> <div class=\"wistia_responsive_wrapper\" style=\"height:100%;left:0;position:absolute;top:0;width:100%;\"> <div class=\"wistia_embed wistia_async_emr516tk53 dnt=1 seo=false videoFoam=true\" style=\"height:100%;position:relative;width:100%\"> <div class=\"wistia_swatch\" style=\"height:100%;left:0;opacity:0;overflow:hidden;position:absolute;top:0;transition:opacity 200ms;width:100%;\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/fast.wistia.com\/embed\/medias\/emr516tk53\/swatch\" style=\"filter:blur(5px);height:100%;object-fit:contain;width:100%;\" alt=\"\" aria-hidden=\"true\" onload=\"this.parentNode.style.opacity=1;\" \/><\/div> <\/div> <\/div> <\/div><\/noscript> <\/div> <hr \/> <p>Hey everybody, Chris Baker here from <a href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\">LuckyGunner.com<\/a>. Today, we\u2019re going to look at more high speed footage to better understand what happens during handgun recoil that we normally cannot see with the naked eye. This time, we\u2019re looking for clues that might help explain why recoil feels different from one gun to the next.<\/p> <p>I don\u2019t just mean that some guns recoil more or less than others, although that\u2019s part of it. Why do we describe recoil as snappy or soft, bouncy or smooth, harsh or flat? We\u2019re not just talking about the magnitude of the felt recoil. And it\u2019s more than the subjective differences based on factors like technique, hand size, and grip strength.<\/p> <p>Every handgun recoils a little differently than others. We\u2019re going to look at some comparisons where that difference is really obvious.<\/p> <h3><strong>Revolver vs. Semi-Auto Felt Recoil<\/strong><\/h3> <p>The most overt example is revolvers versus semi-autos. Here, we\u2019ve got a Wilson 9mm 1911 and a Ruger GP100. They weigh about the same. They\u2019re different calibers, but both are firing the same bullet weight at comparable velocities.<\/p> <p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/gp100-v-1911.jpg\" data-rel=\"lightbox-image-0\" data-rl_title=\"\" data-rl_caption=\"\" title=\"\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11453\" src=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/gp100-v-1911.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1084\" height=\"1080\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/gp100-v-1911.jpg 1084w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/gp100-v-1911-452x450.jpg 452w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/gp100-v-1911-1024x1020.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/gp100-v-1911-150x150.jpg 150w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/gp100-v-1911-768x765.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/gp100-v-1911-96x96.jpg 96w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/gp100-v-1911-84x84.jpg 84w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/gp100-v-1911-80x80.jpg 80w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/gp100-v-1911-120x120.jpg 120w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1084px) 100vw, 1084px\" \/><\/a><\/p> <p>When you fire a revolver, all of the recoil energy is immediately transferred to your hand. With the 1911, there\u2019s a short delay and the recoil is spread out over a longer period of time. The bore line of the revolver is also much higher relative to the hand and wrist. All of these factors combine to make the revolver feel like it has significantly more recoil even when the total amount of energy delivered to the shooter is roughly the same.<\/p> <p>But there are other differences. For example, the revolver\u2019s muzzle arcs up when it\u2019s fired and immediately back down because of the pressure I\u2019m exerting on the grip. The 1911 arcs up, and then there\u2019s a moment when it seems to kind of stall. It\u2019s moving back down, but very slowly at first. Then the slide closes and that has kind of a reverse recoil effect. It helps to push the muzzle back down on target.<\/p> <p>If I speed it up some and let it play out, you can see another side effect of the slide movement. The force of the slide closing causes the muzzle end of the pistol to bounce up and down a few times. The revolver muzzle just snaps back on target and stays there.<\/p> <p>I can still see the front sight on that 1911 while it\u2019s bouncing around. If I\u2019m just trying to throw rounds into the center of a big cardboard silhouette, I don\u2019t have to wait for that sight to completely settle before I fire another shot. But it\u2019s not ideal, and I much prefer the way the sights track on the revolver, even though it takes more effort to control the recoil.<\/p> <p>Again, there is some subjectivity here. If you shot these two guns, you\u2019d probably notice some differences but they might not be the same ones I just mentioned. Except that the revolver has more felt recoil \u2013 that\u2019s pretty universal.<\/p> <h3><strong>Small-Frame Revolver vs. Pocket Pistol<\/strong><\/h3> <p>Let\u2019s look at another revolver-semi-auto pair. This time, a Ruger LCR and a Glock 43, both in 9mm firing <a href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/9mm-luger-p-124-grain-hp-speer-le-gold-dot-50-rounds\">Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P<\/a>.<\/p> <p>These are much lighter guns, so the felt recoil is more severe. Again, more so with the revolver. The LCR has a decent-sized grip compared to the Glock, but even so, you can tell it really wants to free itself from my hands. It\u2019s quite a handful with +P ammo.<\/p> <p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/LCR-v-G43.jpg\" data-rel=\"lightbox-image-1\" data-rl_title=\"\" data-rl_caption=\"\" title=\"\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11465\" src=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/LCR-v-G43.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1084\" height=\"1080\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/LCR-v-G43.jpg 1084w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/LCR-v-G43-452x450.jpg 452w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/LCR-v-G43-1024x1020.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/LCR-v-G43-150x150.jpg 150w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/LCR-v-G43-768x765.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/LCR-v-G43-96x96.jpg 96w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/LCR-v-G43-84x84.jpg 84w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/LCR-v-G43-80x80.jpg 80w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/LCR-v-G43-120x120.jpg 120w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1084px) 100vw, 1084px\" \/><\/a><\/p> <p>This time, the revolver is the one that seems to stall at the top of the recoil arc. The short slide on this Glock takes less time to cycle than the big heavy 1911 slide. So that little assist from the slide closing happens sooner.<\/p> <p>Both of these guns have a little bit of that muzzle bounce at the end. They also don\u2019t return quite to the same spot they started \u2013 you can see that the muzzles are not level \u2013 probably because the grips have shifted slightly in my hands. I would have to deliberately re-align the sights before my next shot rather than letting my grip do all the work subconsciously.<\/p> <p>I haven\u2019t fired either of these guns in a long time. And as you can see, they\u2019re very unforgiving. If you don\u2019t grip a lightweight 9mm just right, the recoil is difficult to manage. Even tiny shifts in how the gun sits in your hand will often lead to erratic shot placement on target.<\/p> <h3>.380 ACP Blowback vs. Locked-Breech Felt Recoil<\/h3> <p>Let\u2019s look at a different kind of comparison: blowback versus recoil operated pistols. Last time, I mentioned that I\u2019m working on a review of this gun \u2013 the new Beretta 80X Cheetah. It\u2019s an all-metal double stack chambered for .380 ACP. The recoil is not at all difficult to manage, but it\u2019s also not insignificant. A lot of people use the word \u201csnappy\u201d to describe how this gun shoots.<\/p> <p>That\u2019s in stark contrast to something like the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/sig-sauer-p365-380-review-its-fun-to-go-fast\/\">.380 version of the Sig P365<\/a>. It\u2019s a bit smaller and lighter than the Beretta, but the perceived recoil is very mild by any standard. That\u2019s because the Sig is a recoil-operated or locked-breech pistol while the Beretta 80X is a straight blowback design.<\/p> <p>A while back, I did a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/blowback-versus-recoil\/\">video on the difference<\/a> between these pistol types in case you want the detailed explanation. For our purposes today, all you really need to know is that blowback pistols have a stationary barrel \u2013 only the slide moves. With a locked breech pistol, the barrel does move. It\u2019s locked to the slide and they move together for the first couple of millimeters of travel, and then they unlock and separate.<\/p> <p>You might have heard before that blowback pistols feel like they recoil more than locked breech pistols of the same size, weight, and caliber. But why is that, exactly?<\/p> <p>I\u2019m going to put the two side by side, but for now, focus on the Beretta. Let\u2019s pause right there. At this point, the Beretta\u2019s slide is completely open. So far, the frame and my hands are in exactly the same position they were at the beginning. Then that recoil force travels from the slide to the frame all at once and you can see my hand react.<\/p><p><\/p> <p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-380-v-80x.jpg\" data-rel=\"lightbox-image-2\" data-rl_title=\"\" data-rl_caption=\"\" title=\"\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11466\" src=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-380-v-80x.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1084\" height=\"1080\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-380-v-80x.jpg 1084w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-380-v-80x-452x450.jpg 452w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-380-v-80x-1024x1020.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-380-v-80x-150x150.jpg 150w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-380-v-80x-768x765.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-380-v-80x-96x96.jpg 96w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-380-v-80x-84x84.jpg 84w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-380-v-80x-80x80.jpg 80w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-380-v-80x-120x120.jpg 120w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1084px) 100vw, 1084px\" \/><\/a><\/p> <p>I\u2019ll play that again, but watch the Sig this time. We\u2019re paused here at the same point. The Beretta slide is completely open but the Sig\u2019s slide is not there yet. It takes a little longer, probably because the barrel was locked to it at the beginning. They\u2019re not together for long, but it would be like if you had a ten year old riding piggyback for the first five feet of a hundred meter sprint \u2013 that\u2019s gonna slow you down. We also can already see some muzzle rise at this point. The gun is not level anymore. If we go frame by frame, you can see movement begin in the pistol frame and my hand just after the barrel unlocks.<\/p> <p>Since the slide is moving slower, it opens with less force than the Beretta slide. That results in less muzzle rise. Watch it one more time and pay attention to the back of my hand on the Beretta when the slide opens. That little ripple in the skin is probably what we\u2019re feeling when we say a gun like this is \u201csnappy.\u201d<\/p> <p>So we have two pistols firing the same cartridge. You\u2019d expect to feel more of the recoil with the Sig because it\u2019s a few ounces lighter. But because it\u2019s a locked-breech design, that recoil is spread out over a longer period of time, which we perceive as less recoil. This principle has limits. For example, the Beretta 80X is far easier to manage than a locked-breech pocket pistol like the Ruger LCP. Not only is the LCP much lighter than the P365, the grip has very little surface area, which concentrates the recoil force and is not much fun to shoot.<\/p> <h3>.380 ACP Blowback vs. 9mm Locked-Breech<\/h3> <p>How about if we compare the Beretta to a locked-breech 9mm of similar size and weight? Something like this 9mm Sig P365 XL. That\u2019s the gun I was reminded of after my first range session with the Beretta 80X. But then I shot them side by side, and they felt very different. The Beretta has a snap while the Sig has more of a push, which is what you might expect. But it also seemed like the Beretta\u2019s sights returned to the target a little quicker than the Sig\u2019s. It\u2019s similar to what we saw with the GP100.<\/p> <p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-xl-v-80x.jpg\" data-rel=\"lightbox-image-3\" data-rl_title=\"\" data-rl_caption=\"\" title=\"\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-11467\" src=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-xl-v-80x.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1084\" height=\"1080\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-xl-v-80x.jpg 1084w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-xl-v-80x-452x450.jpg 452w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-xl-v-80x-1024x1020.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-xl-v-80x-150x150.jpg 150w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-xl-v-80x-768x765.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-xl-v-80x-96x96.jpg 96w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-xl-v-80x-84x84.jpg 84w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-xl-v-80x-80x80.jpg 80w, https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/media\/p365-xl-v-80x-120x120.jpg 120w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1084px) 100vw, 1084px\" \/><\/a><\/p> <p>The 9mm Sig recoils like the .380 version, there\u2019s just more of it. The impulse moves to the frame and the shooter earlier than with the blowback gun. But now watch the slides close. From fully open to fully closed, the Sig\u2019s slide takes 33% longer than the Beretta\u2019s. Like the 1911, The Sig slide appears to linger in the open position. That has an impact on my ability to recover from recoil. And then when the slide finally does close, the muzzle starts to come down, but also causes the frame to jerk forward in my hands a little, which I have noticed when I\u2019m shooting.<\/p> <p>In the meantime, the Beretta muzzle is already on its way back down from grip pressure alone, even before the slide is completely closed.<\/p> <h3>Does Any of This Matter?<\/h3> <p>Now, if we watch these guns in real time, this all seems pretty academic. And it is, depending what you want to do with the gun. With a halfway decent grip, they both seem to snap back onto target pretty much instantly. Any proficient handgun shooter should be able to manage the recoil in either of these guns well enough for practical purposes.<\/p> <p>But if you go through ammo by the case instead of the box or if you\u2019re chasing some high performance shooting goals, these little quirks in the perceived recoil do make a difference. Either consciously or subconsciously, we learn how to compensate for the unique recoil characteristics of each gun when we spend a lot of range time with it. If we then try to shoot a different gun, it might take a while to kind of recalibrate our technique. Of course, recoil is not the only factor. But if all handguns had zero recoil, switching from one to another would be relatively trivial.<\/p> <p>Like I said last time, watching these clips may or may not have any practical value for you. But if nothing else, shooting is fun and so are high speed cameras. Hope you guys enjoyed it. If so, be sure to subscribe to our channel and the next time you need ammo, get it from us with lightning fast shipping at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\">LuckyGunner.com<\/a>.<\/p> <\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>All handguns recoil. It&#8217;s a perfect demonstration of Newton&#8217;s Third Law. But the way we experience that recoil &#8212; the &#8230; <a class=\"read-more\" href=\"https:\/\/www.luckygunner.com\/lounge\/recoil-lets-talk-about-feelings\/\">Continued<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":11468,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[6],"tags":[21,202,318],"class_list":["post-11452","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-toolbox","tag-handguns","tag-high-speed","tag-recoil"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v25.9 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Recoil: Let&#039;s Talk About Feelings<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Perceived or felt recoil can vary dramatically from one handgun to the next. 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